Comments on: A hidden crosswalk http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160 About building a network of trails in lower Montgomery County. Mon, 06 Sep 2010 05:28:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Eileen http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160&cpage=1#comment-53 Eileen Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:48:39 +0000 http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160#comment-53 If you were walking up toward E-W Highway and you were starting from the south side of the circle, exactly how would you make that walk? Go up the west side, where you have to walk in the road because the sidewalk isn't continuous? Or go up the east side, where you will have to cross at an unmarked crosswalk in order to get past Colesville? All of the unmarked crosswalks at Colesville and 16th and between 16th and E-W cross over the grassy median, so it's entirely possible the ped was using one of them and, therefore, legally had the right of way. Was it stupid to cross? Maybe, but he may have made the least stupid choice available to him at the time. It's also stupid to walk down dark alleys with expensive jewelry. One person's stupidity doesn't give another the right to break the law, though. Rather than blaming pedestrians who were handed an unnecessary mess by traffic engineers, the better questions to ask are: When is this mess going to be fixed? And how seriously are pedestrian rights enforced by the police? Are drivers facing significant fines? Are repeat offenders charged criminally rather than with a civil fine? If you were walking up toward E-W Highway and you were starting from the south side of the circle, exactly how would you make that walk? Go up the west side, where you have to walk in the road because the sidewalk isn’t continuous? Or go up the east side, where you will have to cross at an unmarked crosswalk in order to get past Colesville?

All of the unmarked crosswalks at Colesville and 16th and between 16th and E-W cross over the grassy median, so it’s entirely possible the ped was using one of them and, therefore, legally had the right of way. Was it stupid to cross? Maybe, but he may have made the least stupid choice available to him at the time. It’s also stupid to walk down dark alleys with expensive jewelry. One person’s stupidity doesn’t give another the right to break the law, though. Rather than blaming pedestrians who were handed an unnecessary mess by traffic engineers, the better questions to ask are: When is this mess going to be fixed? And how seriously are pedestrian rights enforced by the police? Are drivers facing significant fines? Are repeat offenders charged criminally rather than with a civil fine?

]]> By: admin http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160&cpage=1#comment-52 admin Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:00:31 +0000 http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160#comment-52 Eric: I don't dispute that it is too dangerous to cross 16th Street anyplace below the East-West Highway crosswalk, regardless of whether you are in one of the unmarked crosswalks created by the roadway designers. But I do think the roadway designers need to be held to account for designing sidewalks and curb cuts that create unmarked crosswalks that are much too dangerous to use. They should be warning pedestrians against crossing where it is too dangerous, instead of luring pedestrians into a trap. When we put all of the responsibility on the pedestrian, we give the roadway designers a "free pass" to do anything they like. Eric:
I don’t dispute that it is too dangerous to cross 16th Street anyplace below the East-West Highway crosswalk, regardless of whether you are in one of the unmarked crosswalks created by the roadway designers.
But I do think the roadway designers need to be held to account for designing sidewalks and curb cuts that create unmarked crosswalks that are much too dangerous to use. They should be warning pedestrians against crossing where it is too dangerous, instead of luring pedestrians into a trap. When we put all of the responsibility on the pedestrian, we give the roadway designers a “free pass” to do anything they like.

]]> By: Eric http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160&cpage=1#comment-51 Eric Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:47:51 +0000 http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160#comment-51 Nope, the police stated the man crossed through a "grassy median". There's no more reason to believe that he would go out of his way to cross at those "unmarked crosswalks" than to believe he would've gone out of his way to cross at a *marked* crosswalk at 16th and East-West Hwy. Point is, if you cross where there is NO marking or stoplight whatsoever, you're taking your life into your own hands. The smartest thing to do would have been to cross at 16th and E-W Hwy. However, this man being a longtime resident, he probably felt comfortable jaywalking across 16th Street. This is something I have rarely seen anyone do simply because it is well known that there are cars going 30-40mph across the District line up to E-W Hwy--cars that have little incentive to slow down because of pedestrians jaywalking, and cars that have poor sightlines because of the circle. Moral of the story: DO NOT CROSS WHERE THERE IS NO MARKED CROSSWALK. IF YOU DO, YOU'RE AT FAULT. Nope, the police stated the man crossed through a “grassy median”. There’s no more reason to believe that he would go out of his way to cross at those “unmarked crosswalks” than to believe he would’ve gone out of his way to cross at a *marked* crosswalk at 16th and East-West Hwy. Point is, if you cross where there is NO marking or stoplight whatsoever, you’re taking your life into your own hands. The smartest thing to do would have been to cross at 16th and E-W Hwy. However, this man being a longtime resident, he probably felt comfortable jaywalking across 16th Street. This is something I have rarely seen anyone do simply because it is well known that there are cars going 30-40mph across the District line up to E-W Hwy–cars that have little incentive to slow down because of pedestrians jaywalking, and cars that have poor sightlines because of the circle.

Moral of the story: DO NOT CROSS WHERE THERE IS NO MARKED CROSSWALK. IF YOU DO, YOU’RE AT FAULT.

]]> By: dan http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160&cpage=1#comment-50 dan Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:56:24 +0000 http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160#comment-50 I posted this at Just up the Pike so I figured I'd mention it here too. That intersection is even worse than you show. If you go about 20 ft north of that intersection you see another path. There is a staircase down a hill on once side, a sidewalk in the median, and then a sidewalk entry on the other side. If it weren't for such a clear path, this would be considered Jay-walking, but it is a legal crosswalk. Needless to say, I rarely see cars looking for pedestrians at this location. <a>Here's the arial view</a> <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=16th+st,+20910&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.598824,68.378906&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=16th+St,+Silver+Spring,+Montgomery,+Maryland+20910&ll=38.992888,-77.03616&spn=0.002256,0.004174&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.992994,-77.036163&panoid=uSCLWi4avyS95jn3z-godA&cbp=12,212.96,,0,8.93" rel="nofollow">Here's the street view</A> where you can see the very nice stair care and the clear existence of an intended pedestrian path. I posted this at Just up the Pike so I figured I’d mention it here too. That intersection is even worse than you show. If you go about 20 ft north of that intersection you see another path. There is a staircase down a hill on once side, a sidewalk in the median, and then a sidewalk entry on the other side. If it weren’t for such a clear path, this would be considered Jay-walking, but it is a legal crosswalk. Needless to say, I rarely see cars looking for pedestrians at this location.

Here’s the arial view
Here’s the street view where you can see the very nice stair care and the clear existence of an intended pedestrian path.

]]> By: Eileen http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160&cpage=1#comment-49 Eileen Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:03:03 +0000 http://www.silverspringtrails.org/?p=160#comment-49 I think it's more of an overall bad road and sidewalk design. It isn't just that the crosswalks aren't marked (and are in strange places), but look also at how the sidewalk begins and ends and begins again. A person walking on the left (west?) side of the street loses the sidewalk at the first "crosswalk" at the circle. Assuming they make it to the other side following the route marked on your map, they'll have a sidewalk on the other side of the street. Great. Once they go up a ways, there's another point where they're invited to cross back over, right in the middle of traffic on a road which is engineered as if it were a highway. And then further up there's another place where it looks like peds are invited to cross, again right in the middle of traffic. So if you live on (or are going to) the left side of the street, what are your choices? Stay on the left and walk in the road till the sidewalk picks up again? Or follow the haphazard crosswalks and sidewalks, crisscrossing a street designed by a lunatic. I think it’s more of an overall bad road and sidewalk design. It isn’t just that the crosswalks aren’t marked (and are in strange places), but look also at how the sidewalk begins and ends and begins again. A person walking on the left (west?) side of the street loses the sidewalk at the first “crosswalk” at the circle. Assuming they make it to the other side following the route marked on your map, they’ll have a sidewalk on the other side of the street. Great. Once they go up a ways, there’s another point where they’re invited to cross back over, right in the middle of traffic on a road which is engineered as if it were a highway. And then further up there’s another place where it looks like peds are invited to cross, again right in the middle of traffic. So if you live on (or are going to) the left side of the street, what are your choices? Stay on the left and walk in the road till the sidewalk picks up again? Or follow the haphazard crosswalks and sidewalks, crisscrossing a street designed by a lunatic.

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